From an American Navy Veteran and Chaplain to Prison Ministries -
Hi Glenn,
I can understand his (and your?) confusion at the seeming 'two-faces" of many evangelical Christians out there.
I'll give you a short answer as to why my wife and I, who both consider ourselves conservative evangelical Christians and disliked either choice of candidate (HRC or the Donald), voted for Trump. It came down to who would select moderate or conservative judges for Supreme Court candidates. The checks and balances of our system will have some control over any outrageous laws/edicts that Trump will attempt to put into place. But, changing the face of the Supreme Court to one of being a liberal super-majority for potentially the next several decades was not something that we were willing to live with. Hence, we voted for the party ... and not necessarily the candidate. Many of our friends also did so for the same reason.
Dear Glenn
Like Chris Kratzer, I find Donald Trump’s personal character deeply disturbing, BUT….
I’m not sure that what I’m going to say next will help him to understand why so many evangelical Christians, and non-Evangelical people, may have voted for Donald. But here goes…As a kid at Sunday school I began to find certain aspects of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, deeply disturbing. Even as a female child I felt offended at the patriarchal societal rules, I was dismayed by the vengefulness and violence incited in many sections, and I spotted inconsistencies everywhere (the sort that bothered theologist Barbara Thiering who wrote ‘Jesus the Man’). By teenage-hood I had come to believe that man has created God, rather than the reverse. Having said that, I certainly believe in the historic revolutionary Jesus who tipped his society on its head and changed people’s lives for the good, and because of His example (along with those of countless other marvellous people) I am a true believer in GOOD. Put one more ‘O’ into GOD, and you have GOOD.
I also have come to believe that Barak Obama is an innately good person, one who has been forced to keep his country involved in multiple wars because of the Middle East debacle unleashed by George W, and one who has been soft on border control and immigration because, well, he’s a good-hearted bloke. BUT…
Very many ordinary Americans, British, Australians, and now Europeans like Germans and the French, have become sick and tired of their concerns being ignored as if they are somehow dumb and not worth listening to. Those people have been witnessing their country changing rapidly (and for the worse) due mainly to golden hearted and lax immigration policies by their respective governments. When the influx of population overwhelms infrastructure, and when most of the new immigrants espouse values opposed to modern day western values, we start to see unhappy dysfunctional societies. And what have the golden hearted governments been telling their people?
That the overpopulation equates to economic growth: that the mix of cultures will always sort itself out and make us a ‘richer’ society. Over the past two years, whenever these ordinary people raised concerns about the veracity of their government’s claims, they were immediately branded 1. Racist and 2. Redneck fascists. And the sad part is, of course all of the circumstances I’ve described above do provide fertile breeding ground for these abhorrent groups.
But back to the mass of ordinary people, Christians and atheists alike, well, someone like Trump comes along and bluntly shouts what they have been thinking for so long, giving them validity and a voice for the first time. He sounds like a racist, but is he? He’s married to a lady from Slovenia. He wants to build a wall to keep out illegals. Is that such a dumb idea? He wants to tighten immigration laws, creating a more careful filter in an effort to prevent people entering with bad motives. Is that so bad, and if so, why? He wants to provide a protectionist system for the car building industry in Detroit. Sounds good to many workers, especially those who are unemployed. He defended being civil and answering the phone to the President of Taiwan, regardless of China’s furious reaction. Many people see Trump’s action there as brave and more ‘Christian’ than other governments who have been kow-towing to China.
And guess what? Many governments such as mine have taken a leaf out of Trump’s blunt book – they are now listening to the ordinary people. They now have the courage to tighten their borders and to strengthen the filter for immigration. They now have the courage to act more decisively and to drop some of their PC ‘speak’, knowing now that we can all see right through it. The people want plain talk from both sides of the political spectrum.
I like many others are worried about a Trump presidency. Will it lead to war with China? An allegiance with the war-like Putin? A war with the current CIA operative, leading to a dysfunctional Intelligence system?
None, some or all of these things may happen. Trump is unpredictable. But just maybe Chris Kratzer now has the smallest understanding as to why so many Evangelical Christians along with many others voted for Trump.
Steph from Downunder
From David, our scientist in the Midlands of England -
A somewhat superficial response, but often first thoughts are the ones which feel right. As I recall, evangelical Christianity depends much on a child-like, emotional faith. One hears of people who know that God is 'calling' them. Those who have such faith often believe that the words in the books of the bible, being 'the words of God' must be literally true, however contradictory and occasionally thoroughly reprehensible the mixed messages might be.
Analysis through rational thought is oft considered to be merely playing with semantics and denial of fundamental religious truth. A mind-set like this is going to be easy meat for the Trumpeters and Brexiters, whose messages rarely stand up to rational analyses. They require an emotional, non-intellectual response.
Analysis through rational thought is oft considered to be merely playing with semantics and denial of fundamental religious truth. A mind-set like this is going to be easy meat for the Trumpeters and Brexiters, whose messages rarely stand up to rational analyses. They require an emotional, non-intellectual response.
From a law school professor in Pennsylvania -
Glenn, thanks. The issue raised by your cousin in the first article is something that irritates (no angers) my wife who was raised a Presbyterian and who is now a lapsed Episcopalian. She cannot understand how people of faith can support a loathsome, despicable person. Check out David Brooks today in the NYT. The next four years are going to be a Barnum and Bailey political world even though that circus is closing.
Thanks to all for sharing....some very differing views from thoughtful, well-educated, well-meaning persons. GNH
This is an erudite and interesting blog not. I enjoyed reading it. I would, however make an observation as concerns the UK that belies the note that suggests the immigration of people with incompatible values is the problem and the cause of the rejection of future migration.
ReplyDeleteIn the UK, forty years ago, very large numbers of hindu and muslim immigrants appeared when the African ex-colonies removed these populations forcibly and Britain took them in.
At no point was there a serious anti-immigration stance take by the British, and it was not a political matter of note.
Why?
Very simple. These groups clustered together, worked together, did not particularly wish to integrate, and came at a time when employment was high.
In contrast, the people from the east European states came in similar numbers, again over a short period of time, but - unlike the asians - the integrated with the working environment, integrated socially, integrated geographically and were far more 'visible' to the local 'indigenous' people.
This also happened at a time when local politicians were whipping up local nationalism and foreigner-hating.
SO it is untrue in Britain's case that the current isolationist actions are a response to the 'cultural foreign-ness' of immigrants.
As for social support systems and infrastructure, in the UK it has been for some decades very poor, quite inadequately planned, bought cheaply and inadequately managed.
BUT undoubtedly the numbers coming in have in some areas a=dded pressure to the system.
For the future, in Europe, the frightening prospect if immense numbers of desperate refugees from the middle east and northern Africa will dwarf the problem we face now.
When fifty million or more come - or try to come to Europe - what will we do then? That number is probably an under-estimate of the population displaced, starving, desperate.
And not by war as in Syria, but by climate change and a population boom here of well in excess of 10000 million ADDITIONAL marginal survivors.
It is then a binary choice - exclude them and watch them die, or allow them in and risk the gutter destruction of the European societies.
BUT
It has not - so far - been a matter of incompatible peoples in Britain.
Are there incompatible groups in the UK>
Yes - but that is not accepted by most British.